Which is more correct, Carlos I or Carlos V?
score:8
I believe your subtext is incorrect - "most popular" is an inappropriate approach to take to correct usage. The correct usage, in either language, should be determined by which of the two roles is most relevant to the discussion.
South and Central America were never part of the Holy Roman Empire, so they were explored and conquered by and in the name of Charles I, King of Spain.
The Netherlands as part of the HRE were ruled by Charles V of the HRE, a very popular ruler.
Vienna as part of the HRE was defended by Charles V, King of the Romans and King in Germany.
The conflict with Henry VIII over Catherine of Aragon is a bit of both; but it was his physical possession of Rome and thus the Pope, as Charles V King of Italy, that made his opinion on the matter influential in England.
So in most non-specific contexts, in South and Central America, it would make little sense to refer to Charles V - their sovereign was always Charles I of Spain. The Netherlands were not transferred from the HRE to Spain until Charles' death, so they were ruled in succession by the very popular Charles V of the HRE and then the very unpopular Philip II of Spain. Charles V, King of Germany, was drawn early into the conflict with Martin Luther and those German Imperial Principalities of the HRE that adopted the Confession of Augsburg (Lutheranism).
Upvote:-2
In his role as Spanish King, including Spanish possessions
- Charles I, King of Spain
otherwise (in Pan-European context)
- Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor
Since he was active in both areas, the different titles should be used in context.
For persons familiar with British history, Charles V and Charles I are 2 distinct persons, both of which are well known during the Tudor and Stuart periods.
So usage without dates or the 'of Spain' portion may cause confusion.
Charles V (24 February 1500 – 21 September 1558) was Holy Roman Emperor and Archduke of Austria from 1519, King of Spain (Castile and Aragon, as Charles I) from 1516, and Lord of the Netherlands as titular Duke of Burgundy from 1506. Head of the rising House of Habsburg during the first half of the 16th century, his dominions in Europe included the Holy Roman Empire extending from Germany to northern Italy with direct rule over the Austrian hereditary lands and the burgundian Low Countries, and a unified Spain with its southern Italian kingdoms of Naples, Sicily, and Sardinia. Furthermore, his reign encompassed both the long-lasting Spanish and short-lived German colonizations of the Americas. The personal union of the European and American territories of Charles V was the first collection of realms labelled "the empire on which the sun never sets".
Sources:
Upvote:-2
There is a long discussion about the article name in Wikipedia in Spanish. In spite of being a heated and probably un-scientific debate, it shows that both names are used. A rapid check of how are streets named after the emperor (by googling "calle Carlos I" and "calle Carlos V") shows that both are used.
Furthermore, neither Charles I nor Charles V are ambiguous in a Spanish context, since there is just another king named Charles (Charles II). This might be a bit different in Navarre where up to four Charles reigned, but in most contexts references to Charles I can't be ambiguous with a 14th century king of Navarre.
In summary, I wouldn't worry because both names can be unambiguously understood and are used often.
Upvote:5
Emperor Charles V had many realms and many royal and noble titles. So he has different numbers with his name in different Wikipedia lists of monarchs.
As king of the Castilian kingdoms, he was Carlos I.
As king of Aragon, etc., he was Carlos I.
As king of Navarre he was Carlos IV, V, or VI since the list in Wikipedia is messed up. It counts a titular Carlos IV, then the Emperor is listed as Carlos VI, although he could be Carlos IV if the previous Carlos IV isn't counted, then comes King Charles II of Spain listed as Charles V (Charles II of Spain), and King Charles III of Spain is listed as Charles VI again.
As King of Sicily he is listed as Charles or Carlo II.
As King of the other Sicily, or Naples, he is listed as Carlo IV.
As King of Sardinia he is listed as Charles I.
As Duke of Burgundy he is listed as Charles II.
As Count of Burgundy he is listed as Charles II.
As count of Flanders he listed as Charles III.
As Duke of Brabant he is listed as Charles II.
As Archduke of Austria he is listed as Charles I.
And so on and so on. This post says:
HRE Emperor Charles V was actually Charles I in Austria and Spain, Charles II in Burgundy and Hungary, Charles III in Flanders, Charles IV in Sicily.
https://www.reddit.com/r/history/comments/dwzp2h/monarchs_with_different_numbers/1
The positions of King of the East Franks or Germany and King of Italy or Lombardy were united with the position of Emperor in 962, and the position of King of Arles or Burgundy was united with the position of Emperor in 1032. Before those dates the three kingdoms often had different rulers and so they don't always have the name number of rulers with a particular name, like Charles.
As Emperor of the Romans He was Carolus V, as King of Germany he was Karl IV (counting Charlemagne as Karl I), as King of Italy he was Carlo V, and as King of Burgundy he was Charles V.
Note that Emperor Charles V was Count of one Burgundy, Duke of a second Burgundy, and King of a third Burgundy.
Since the Emperor of the Romans claimed to be the rightful ruler of the whole world, it was by far the most important title of Emperor Charles V and so it seems appropriate for him to be identified as Carlos V instead of Carlos I.
The official ideology of the Holy Roman Empire was that it was the continuation of the Carolingian Empire, and that Charlemagne in 800 was the rightful successor of Constantine VI who was deposed in 797 (and replaced by a woman who wasn't eligible to be emperor), and that Constantine VI was the rightful heir of all the eastern Roman Emperors back to Arcadius in 395, who was the heir of all Roman Emperors back to Augustus. And of course everyone knows that the Roman emperors claimed to be the rightful rulers of the world.
When Carlos V is listed or discussed as the ruler of some county, principality, duchy or kingdom, such as Castile, he could be listed as Carlos V (I) or as Carlos I (V) to show that he is known by both numbers.
More post
- 📝 What is the purpose of this Roman siege tactic as shown in this Illustration?
- 📝 Communication lag during the Age of Sail: what if enemy claimed that peace agreement was signed?
- 📝 What was the Soviet role in Syria during the Cold-War?
- 📝 What was the place of a catapult in a formation
- 📝 How did the US/South Vietnam lose the Vietnam war?
- 📝 Please help find these paintings
- 📝 How many people were fighting in the North Korean Army in peak strength in the Korean War?
- 📝 Why were penal colony members from Australia moved to San Francisco in 1840's?
- 📝 What technological/economic factors triggered the Industrial Revolution?
- 📝 At what date did the Ostrogoths formally stop ruling as Roman tributaries?
- 📝 What major Native American tribes were around Santa Fe during the late 1850s?
- 📝 How were taxes collected for traveling merchants in the middle ages?
- 📝 Other examples of Enclave created for protection of a Mixed Race
- 📝 When was the british rail strike when the workers fought by following the regulations?
- 📝 When did "&" stop being taught alongside the alphabet?
- 📝 What was middle class in Sweden in WW1?
- 📝 Why is Titus known as Titus?
- 📝 What caused the Mule Shoe salient?
- 📝 Did the Minoans practise human sacrifice?
- 📝 Napoleon's medals
- 📝 What was the true status of Hessian mercenaries?
- 📝 Why are early submarines faster on the surface, while later types are faster when submerged?
- 📝 What is Renaissance Humanism?
- 📝 What is the earliest-known list of the Roman Principate?
- 📝 What did the ancient Egyptians think of Khufu?
- 📝 Does a Baal human sacrifice statue from Carthage exist?
- 📝 Was there an assassination attempt against Xerxes in the battle of Thermopylae?
- 📝 What major approaches to "class" as a theoretical category do historians commonly use?
- 📝 What was Hunanese cuisine like before chili peppers were imported to China?
- 📝 How to explain the Khalkhin Gol outcome in view of Soviet weakness and Japanese strength at that time?
Source: stackoverflow.com
Search Posts
Related post
- 📝 Which is more correct, Carlos I or Carlos V?
- 📝 In which situation is the broadside more preferable than every gun firing on their own time?
- 📝 Which college president nearly finished a book in 1914 that argued that there would be no more wars?
- 📝 Which method of telephone calls was more popular: station-to-station or person-to-person?
- 📝 Which of Hitler's peers had no more education than him?
- 📝 Which was more revolutionary for its time: Television or Radio?
- 📝 Which culture used no personal names?
- 📝 Which came first: polytheism or monotheism?
- 📝 Why are so many metros underground? Isn't that more expensive than an elevated system?
- 📝 Why didn't Hitler have more submarines in the English channel?
- 📝 Why didn't battleship Bismarck have more support?
- 📝 Why were so many more Jewish men than Jewish women killed during the Holocaust?
- 📝 Which European Languages are not Indo-European?
- 📝 Which monarch had the longest break in their reign?
- 📝 Which year in history had the highest ratio of non-natural deaths?
- 📝 Which countries (or comparable geographical units) have a lower population now than they used to at some point in history before 1950?
- 📝 When was Silver ever more valuable than Gold?
- 📝 Under which conditions does the losing party actively commemorate a battle?
- 📝 How do I find the sources which determined the year of the fall of Babylon?
- 📝 Which battle was the most lopsided result in terms of casualties?
- 📝 Why did Roosevelt and Churchill use voice-based telecommunication, instead of simpler text-based options which were easier to encrypt?
- 📝 Is it true that there are more slaves in the world now than ever at one point in history?
- 📝 Which war games did Napoleon practice with his generals?
- 📝 Which cultures did *not* produce alcohol?
- 📝 Which religion was the first monotheistic one?
- 📝 Are there any documented examples of wooden ships which were in active service for 100 years or more? If not, what is the longest?
- 📝 How did medieval manors handle population growth? Was there room for more fields to be ploughed?
- 📝 At which point in time did the majority of German population become aware of the Holocaust?
- 📝 Why was sugar cultivation more profitable in the Caribbean/Brazil than West Africa?
- 📝 Why did Hitler not concentrate more on North Africa?
